New 8921 owner's progress, need help....

[Geezerjem]

Hi TBS !

Bought the 8921 card last Friday and was it delivered yesterday (Wednesday). Awesomely fast DHL delivery.

Installed the supplied software from the included little CD. TBSViewer. Within 5 mins was watching BBC1 in glorious HD on my PC. Awesome !

** Bit of history **

I've been using a v2.3 Technisat Skystar2 with Progdvb for years, DISEQC'd to 13E/19E/28E. Upgraded to a steerable dish (45W to 43E hehe steered by Technomate 5200D Super, which is.... SUPER !), with dual LNB, one to 5200D and one to PC. Blindscanning nicely as only the v2.3 can. Lots of news feeds and SO fast !

Updated PC to Windows7 (32 bit). ProgDVB (4 and 6) work fine in WIndows 7 but blindscan doesn't. Look for Windows 7 compatible DVB-S2 with HARDWARE blindscan. And Lo - the TBS 8921 appeared. Bought it, installed it. Yummy.

*********************

The bad news so far is that I cannot get ProgDVB to start the card.

I've done a fresh install of ProgDVB6.51.2Std.exe after uninstalling the previous v6 one (and deleting the directory, the uninstaller doesn't)...
Selected TBS qbox when installing.
Copied over TBS.eBDA file from download area (78k size over the installed 70.2K)
Run ProgDVB 6
Settings --> TV Sources
Select '{BDA} TBS 8921 Tuner/Demod'

This gives me an error window '[{BDA} TBS 8921 Tuner/Demod] Device not started !'

The ProgDVB window gets retitled 'ProgDVB (Not Responding)'

I have to close ProgDVB via the ctrl-alt-del route.

The card is fine, as TBSViewer still runs as it should.

HELP !!!!

Jem. UK.

---------------
I've checked the Blindscan tool now. It's very fast, finds lots and is more than a little confusing. As I see it, I should put in a lower and upper frequency. On the Ku band that this software is set up for (LOF1=9750 and LOF2=10600) I would expect to put in a full range of 10700 to 12750GHz but the requested range is in KHz and is actually the I.F. range of 950000 to 2150000KHz.

Then you have to specify whether it's H,V and 22KHz on or off, making a full top to bottom scan only possible in four sweeps (H-OFF, H-ON, V-OFF and V-ON). This is 'not optimised' One default sweep covering all four options would be superb, possibly with a manual override. How about four tickboxes ? H, V, Upper, Lower for example.

You can save the result file, which is really good. BUT (here I go again....) the saved format is a '.txt' :

Carrier_Freq(KHz).Symbol_Rate(KHz).Oper_Mode
8363053............28670................DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
7874042............13499................DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 7/8

Looks good but it's not an '.INI.' file that can be imported as a transponder list. I've NO idea what the frequency is either, it's not between 950MHz and 2150MHz and it's not between 10700GHz and 12750GHz. SR looks spot on though.

I hope this feedback helps to improve things. I understand I've taken a flyer on a just released card but it's soooooooo close to being awesome !

I look forward to your feedback and if I can help in any way, please contact me.

Jem. UK. 45W to 43E

[Geezerjem]

Ok, more research (well, fiddling) with the Blind Scan (BS) tool... It's what I bought the card for...

Real channel (NTAi on 24.5W) is at :

11675000,V,27500,78

TBS8921 BS Tool finds a channel :

7825057,V,27500,78

I know it finds only the NTAi channel because I set FreqLower=1920000, FreqUpper=1930000 using LOF1=9750, thereby restricting the band scanned from 11670000 to 11680000 (which includes the required 11675000 nicely).

For those who haven't needed to fiddle about with satellite frequencies, L.O.F's and I.F's (and jeez I wish I hadn't sometimes....):-

The actual frquency of the satellite broadcast ,in this case 11675MHz (or 11675000KHz, they're the same) is converted by the LNB ( for this read 'has the LNB Local Oscillator Frequncy (LOF) subtracted from it' ) to give the I.F. (Intermediate Frequency) that is the frequency that comes down the cable and is received by the PC card, satellite box etc.

In the case of NTAi above,

11675000 - 9750000 = 1925000
Actual - L.O.F1 = I.F.

I've tried adding and subtracting all combinations of LOF (9750, 10600 and even 11700) and I.F. (950000 and 2150000) but can't get 7825057 to equate to 11675000. There's obviously a 'frig' value to convert what the BS tool sees to the correct frequency, but I can't work it out. Yet....

Jem.

P.S. I think I may need to get out more. Somebody please reply, even if it's to agree....

[starman345]

Great on all the feedback, I don't have one of these cards but I may buy one from your encouraging review. It sounds like its a work in progress. The card really needs to be able to do a complete scan in one sweep to be useful to me, having to select h,v, on/off would be a pain.
As for the file being a .txt format at least they can be renamed to .ini files. You talk about the ku side of things, can you say if the tbsview software will also accomodate c band (5150) blind scans? Can you input switch parameters? Diseqc 1.2 or Usals motor control settings?
Thanks for any more input you can offer, I too had the Skystar 2.3 at one time, also the more recent 2004D dvbworld blind scanner...fun toys, always looking for a better one.....maybe the 8921 is it?

[cody]

i'm sure we will take all customer's feedback and suggestions and use them to improve the tool user interface and functionality - blind-scan is new feature and really work in progress.

[Geezerjem]

Thanks for your replies Starman345 and Cody, much appreciated.

I agree with you Starman, the default condition for blindscan should be a full sweep. I suggest a manual override for the four options.

I've found a frig value for the blindscan !

The good new is that the actual frequency = 19500000-(frequency shown by blindscan). This works for the two I've checked:

NTAI : 11674943=19500000-7825057 (actual = 11675000)
and
KTO : 11355573=19500000-8144427 (actual = 11355000)

The bad news is that I haven't worked out the High Band (22khz On) yet. Thought I had then came out with an actual frequency of > 12750000, which is

The badder news is that after using the blindscan tool with 22KHz set to ON, absolutely NO High Band signals are receivable on any DVB software e.g. DVB Dream, DVBViewer or TBSViewer. Full re-boot required.

BAD : Running the Blindscan tool makes the 22KHz High band selection unavailable to other software after it closes (yes, cleanly).

Starman345, I've no idea about the C-Band, but if I can sneak a biggie dish into the garden (everyone is used to the 1m one now ) I'll have a go....

P.S. Just watched Indiana Jones & Last Crusade on BBC1 HD flawlessly. It's gorgeous, very 'filmy'. Viewed on DVBViewer paid-for-version. GPU up to 57deg C (Nvidia GT240, case temp. at 39 deg C, around 20% use on Core 2 DUO E4400, maybe less) Clicked back to SD every now and again to prove it looked awesome on HD and the SD looked poo.

Jem.

[BluetoothBG]

Thank you for the constant value, Geezerjem!

I also noticed that after clean scan (22kHz ON) the card is not usable (mine is TBS6921) and only a reboot helps.

[Geezerjem]

Hi BluetoothBG !

Nice to see others out there with the same issues !

I've read the thread with your posts in and felt much better

Nice to have the BSTool frig factor verified. Science discovers things, but unless someone can independently verify, you're in the wilderness. With only the voices to keep you company

Anyway, with your encouragement I've gone back to the BSTool to try to work out the frig factor. Initially I chose 24.5W for trying to work it out as there's not many transponders but they're there all the time.

This time I've looked at the big sky, er, namely SKY @ 28.5E. I ran off a BS on the Vertical, with 22KHz off and got:

BS Tool(KHz) BS Tool(MHz) Frigged SR Thingy FEC
8771087 8771 10729 21999 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
8741571 8742 10758 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
8712085 8712 10788 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
8682576 8683 10817 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
8653078 8653 10847 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
8623566 8624 10876 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
8594071 8594 10906 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
8564569 8565 10935 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
8276322 8276 11224 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8240324 8240 11260 27499 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8193057 8193 11307 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8155567 8156 11344 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8109702 8110 11390 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8073699 8074 11426 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
7973140 7973 11527 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
7934683 7935 11565 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
7896182 7896 11604 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
7857757 7858 11642 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
7819295 7819 11681 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
7761064 7761 11739 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
7722043 7722 11778 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
7683056 7683 11817 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
7644041 7644 11856 29500 DVBS2-QPSK ,FEC 3/4
7605056 7605 11895 27499 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3

sorry for the Tab delimited output, it's from openoffice and i carnt be to redo it.

I ran the same thing with 22KHz on and got (same frig value applied):

BS Tool(KHz) BS Tool(MHz) Frigged SR Thingy FEC
9621079 9621 9879 21999 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
9591586 9592 9908 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
9562088 9562 9938 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
9532579 9533 9967 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
9503088 9503 9997 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
9473583 9474 10026 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
9444076 9444 10056 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
9414572 9415 10085 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
9126322 9126 10374 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
9090326 9090 10410 27499 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
9043067 9043 10457 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
9005570 9006 10494 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8959697 8960 10540 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8923707 8924 10576 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8823149 8823 10677 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8784681 8785 10715 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8746187 8746 10754 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8707759 8708 10792 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8669302 8669 10831 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8611073 8611 10889 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8572046 8572 10928 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8533051 8533 10967 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8494046 8494 11006 29500 DVBS2-QPSK ,FEC 3/4
8455046 8455 11045 27499 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3

The first thing I noticed was there was a clear standout signal, namely the 29500 with DVBS2-QPSK, one on each scan, one from the end of each scan. A coincidence I thought. Then noticed that all the SR's, thingys and FEC's were in the identical quantity and order. Just the Frequency is different.

My conclusion is that the BSTool does NOT turn the 22KHz on even though it says it does. It does, however apply a different frig value when it thinks it's scanning the 'High' band, hence the diferent frequencies found.

This lead to the thought that even though the BSTool doesn't turn the 22KHz on, I can calculate the frig value in the same way as before, and it's :

actual frequency = 20350000-(frequency shown by blindscan)

Applying this gives:

BS Tool(KHz) BS Tool(MHz) Frigged SR Thingy FEC
9621079 9621 10729 21999 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
9591586 9592 10758 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
9562088 9562 10788 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
9532579 9533 10817 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
9503088 9503 10847 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
9473583 9474 10876 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
9444076 9444 10906 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
9414572 9415 10935 22000 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 5/6
9126322 9126 11224 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
9090326 9090 11260 27499 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
9043067 9043 11307 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
9005570 9006 11344 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8959697 8960 11390 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8923707 8924 11426 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8823149 8823 11527 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8784681 8785 11565 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8746187 8746 11604 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8707759 8708 11642 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8669302 8669 11681 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8611073 8611 11739 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8572046 8572 11778 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8533051 8533 11817 27500 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3
8494046 8494 11856 29500 DVBS2-QPSK ,FEC 3/4
8455046 8455 11895 27499 DVBS-QPSK ,FEC 2/3

which is a 100% match for the low band scan in the first table.

To sumarise the current BSTool:

1. The BSTool is not currently able to turn on the 22KHz signal to select the high band, even when it says it does.
2. When using the Low band (22KHz off), the formula is 'actual frequency = 19500000-(frequency shown by blindscan)'
3. When it is able to turn the 22KHZ on (assuming no other changes to the software) the frig formula will be 'actual frequency = 20350000-(frequency shown by blindscan)'
4. Using the BSTool makes the card unusable afterwards.
5. I haven't had this much fun with a satellite card, like EVER !

I must stress that my dish is steered by another receiver. My PC hangs off a dual output LNB so I've no way to check DISEQC and positioner stuff. All formulas relate to the 8921 implementation of the BSTool, I don't know and can't verify the 6921 version.

Fun huh ?

Jem. UK. 45W to 43E

[cody]

i want to suggest to use single forum thread for blind-scan with 6921/8921, because it's hard for me to follow in several threads, just read and answer to:

https://shop.tbsdtv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=102

and i find feedback about it very useful for future improvements.

[Geezerjem]

OK Cody, will do.