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DVB-S2X

DVB-S2X

Postby EnoSat » Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:56 pm

I noticed that TBS cards have a problem with DVB-S2X streaming.
Some have zero stream with no pids (mostly if it appearsí 50 Mbit/s) and others have one pid, although the stream is ok.
Is it a driver error or a general feature?
Alternatively, which cards display DVB-S2X correctly?
etc. 11 West
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Win10 , Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-7400T CPU @ 2.40GHz , 8 GB RAM
TBS 5925 , 5880 , 5520SE , 5220
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Re: DVB-S2X

Postby DVB » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:11 am

If you're streaming from 6903X/6909X from CrazyScan - uncomment and change FrameMode to 1 (I think - you have to test if 1 or 0) in StreamReader.ini
Details: https://www.satellitescommunity.de/foru ... #post37799

PID 280 is a standard encapsulation mode PID in TBS cards. Not a bug - encapsulation helps to recover original stream instead of garbages that are after stream is going through processing through 188-bytes TS output. Continuous stream (mostly) does not have 188-bytes packets layout and what's visible in TransEdit are garbages after packages are destroyed when trying to push them through 188-bytes TS structures. With "fake" encapsulation all this stream can be recovered back in the original form (hopefully) by decapsulating later. Without knowing the real structure of stream - as this can be pretty much anything, packets might have any length or be encrypted, tailored for some private devices (modems etc.), still reading this correctly after decapsulation has got not big chances to succeed.

You can find very interesting discussion regarding this here: https://rickcaylor.websitetoolbox.com/p ... 4?trail=30 Starting from @newsy post). DD cards are doing the same, but they've choosen PID 270.
Decapsulation tool, which gives a chance to get real and correct stream (this still might be anything at the end, not 188-byte TS) instead of garbages (requires to have encapsulation to PID 280 enabled): https://github.com/newspaperman/bbframe-tools



For the second issue - I can confirm that for example with 5520SE some data frequencies are empty with always showing 50 Mbit/s, no matter what the real bitrate is. But looks like issue only for data, because S2X feeds or transmission from 33°E (when it was broadcasted) worked fine. No support for ACM? Or for continuous or packetized streams? Not only for DVB-S2X. This issue can be seen even on Hot Bird. 11,604 H SR: 31432. 5520SE shows 50 Mbit/s and records or streams nothing. 5927 (no S2X) locks and is able to record some stream. 5927 says it is a continuous stream. Same will be probably for all SiLabs based devices. I'll check 5930 later (Montage based).

Checked 5930 on Hot Bird - TransEdit shows "classic" output (random PIDs - garbages), CrazyScan fails, because TBS did not released drivers update for 5930 yet (v1.0.0.4 are affected with some known issues which prevents BLScan2 and RFScan from working on this device right now).



Maybe issue with 11°W because something is not standard there? Not always 0x47 sync byte? In such case encapsulation might be enabled automatically. This would explain encapsulation in 6903x/6909x and no incoming data in 5520 for that frequency despite lock - treating this as a non Transport Stream. Normally S2X works for all of these devices in TS modes correctly.
And now you're watching 8K:
KKKKKKKK
:)
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Re: DVB-S2X

Postby EnoSat » Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:40 am

I could not lock 11604 H, but on 13E I have a lock in EDISON for 12437.14 H SR-31429
TBS 5520SE with option FrameMode=1
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Win10 , Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-7400T CPU @ 2.40GHz , 8 GB RAM
TBS 5925 , 5880 , 5520SE , 5220
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Re: DVB-S2X

Postby DVB » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:32 am

FrameMode will help for cards, where you can see PID 280 (encapsulation). Switching between 0 and 1 should encapsulate into PID 280 or show all data in the old way.

5520SE (and other SiLabs) - need TBS help. Not sure if this card has got HW capable to read such transmissions, so maybe lock only & no data... :(

At Hot Bird currently:
11604 H 31432
12437 H 31432
12616 H 31432
12635 V 31432
12645 H 15316 (on the second half of transponder there's also something, but I cannot lock)
12673 V 31432
12713 V 34288
12731 H 31432
+ some weird activity at 11623 V and 12530 H (only half used) but cannot lock these two.

Interesting that AVL6261 based device is able to get anything readable from this. 5927 is able to lock 12437 H, but even filtering by MODCODE gives nothing readable and when field for refreshing modulation information is selected, informations going just crazy - random modulation, FEC, MIS, stream types - everything is just changing all the times...

Recorded 50 MB on 5927 and 5930 from 12,673 V, which seems to be the strongest here, but both cards gives mostly damaged random Internet traffic and other random data, certificates etc. No tables, no NIT and searching through the recorded stream gives no sign of a name similar to "M_Ku_RMB_HB13_EU_N01_1055" (checked also 12437 H), but seems to be real RMB = RAMBOUILLET, so must be there somewhere...

get_204.png


3412_hearders.png


3872_public_certificates.png


8004_registry.png


Interesting could be attempt to record this on 6903x or 6909x as encapsulated to PID 280...



Don't know how AVL6261 devine manages to get some NIT, but maybe this is a sign, that TBS could look at this nice idea: viewtopic.php?f=97&t=25607#p56381 :mrgreen:
And now you're watching 8K:
KKKKKKKK
:)
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Re: DVB-S2X

Postby EnoSat » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:21 pm

yes, 12646H too lock on EDISION, but pidscan not find pids
Win10 , Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-7400T CPU @ 2.40GHz , 8 GB RAM
TBS 5925 , 5880 , 5520SE , 5220
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Re: DVB-S2X

Postby s0nnenschein » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:46 pm

If you can't lock this might have 4 reasons

1. You have the wrong hardware
2. You have the wrong software
3. The reception is too bad and you need a larger dish
4. You don't know the exact parameters in order to get a lock

I'm using newspaperman''s tool since its beginning. Need it on 23.5E and 0.8W for the DAB multiplexes of Bundesmux 1 and 2, NRK and Riks.

I can lock 12645 H 15316 and get all data using strings command under Linux. There seems to be Internet traffic only, so I won't investigate in detail.

But for all the other mentioned Transponders I get no lock neither under Windows nor under Linux. Can you tell me the exact parameters like system, FEC and so on?

At the end please notice that these are data transponders for professional use and not intended for private.
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Re: DVB-S2X

Postby DVB » Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:09 pm

Hello @s0nnenschein ;)

Probably all these are Internet traffic. Lately really a lot of such transmissions are on many satellites. For example at 33°E most of transponders between 10,7 and 11,7 GHz are active for this purpose, with high SR ~30000 ksps.

It's kind of puzzling how it is possible that EDISION with AVL6261 can get some NIT table with readable network details, but none DVB card cannot.
5520SE: 50 Mbit/s empty data (@TBS? This can be fixed?)
5927: garbages
5930: garbages
What about 6903x/6909x with encapsulation to PID 280 - if decapsulated correctly, then stream is not garbages?

Interesting would be to have a way to recognize at least most of such transmissions by getting some kind of their ID, like the name from NIT. This would greatly help to not waste time for analyzing such broadcasts anyhow deeply, because there won't be much interesting to see.

All details what I can get about these Hot Bird data transponders (12,616H seems to be S2X, because it's unlockable currently on 5927, but no problems with 5520SE although signal is weak):

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And now you're watching 8K:
KKKKKKKK
:)
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Re: DVB-S2X

Postby s0nnenschein » Sat Aug 20, 2022 5:31 am

These are no transport streams, therefore, you will not find a NIT.

You just could the following :

Stream to a file, extract all strings, uniq and sort and then count them and sort by number.

That's what I did on the most data transponders. It's just one line of commands.
Last edited by s0nnenschein on Sat Aug 20, 2022 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DVB-S2X

Postby DVB » Sat Aug 20, 2022 5:52 am

Thanks I had exactly that understanding, but if that's true, then what displays Edision STB?
That string "M_Ku_RMB_HB13_EU_N01_1055", which seems to originate from some NIT?

EnoSat was able to extract it as I understand from 12,437 GHz, pol. H data transmission, but all what I see is non-TS as you, so that's why I'm puzzled with this - how this is possible? :shock:

Unfortunately there's no DVB card on AVL6261, I've got no STB on this chip. EnoSat surely made a lot of experiments on it (this is our guru of feedhunting etc.), but Enigma STBs probably does not allow to record full TS? @EnoSat - is that true? We cannot stream full TS out of E2 STB, to check something more, what is happening there to try to explain this situation?

Similar strings can be seen on the same STB from other data feeds from other satellites, e.g. at this @EnoSat post regarding HellasSat 2: https://www.satclub.pl/inne-satelity-f1 ... ml#p621896 and these strings looks very logical, not like something made up by STB itself.

My current idea is that there's maybe some additional MODCODE, which is carrying just basic identification data, if correctly locked and filtered? On many such data feeds there's QPSK 1/2 mode, which is very easy to lock, but I'm seeing it as empty.

PS: New data feed on Hot Bird active from today - 11,200 GHz, pol. V SR: 34288. And 12,645 GHz, pol. H (SR: 15316) has seemingly left.
And now you're watching 8K:
KKKKKKKK
:)
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Re: DVB-S2X

Postby s0nnenschein » Sat Aug 20, 2022 1:48 pm

You will always find repeating texts on such transponders.

Maybe they are carrying UDP payload with various DVB-T(2) streams??

But as long as I cannot lock under Linux and analyse with the tools from newspaperman I won't be able to help here.

The 6903x driver for Windows is still buggy in my opinion.
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